Intertidal Polyphonies
Pages
-
-
Lamma Island Video 8
-
Video by Lamma Island Family Walk of grass and trees in the foreground by the water, where waves are hitting the rocks. Buildings and boats are visible in the background with a tree-covered mountain on the right side. Duration: 0:37
-
-
Leung Chi Wo 1: Clip 1
-
In this audio recording, Leung Chi Wo addresses the complex relationship between history and memory in Hong Kong’s past. He acknowledges both the importance and the potential difficulty of object-based presentation, and discusses how he counteracts the problem of the commercialization or commodification of the nostalgia of such objects., 0:30
Leung Chi Wo: My name is Leung Chi Wo, and I’m a visual artist. I’m also teaching here in the School of Creative Media at the City University of Hong Kong.
0:42
Joanne Leow: I’d like to start right away by thinking about your most recent work, the one you just closed in Blindspot Gallery, Something There and Never There, and ask you to talk a little bit more about this question of the relationship between memory and history in Hong Kong’s past, especially because I know there was a lot of autobiographical elements in that piece. So what do you think is that relationship between memory and history for you in Hong Kong?
1:06
Leung Chi Wo: Okay. I think history is something we learn in a school, it has certain kind of authority, and then that’s why you have to learn because you don’t know that. But more you read about it, and also observing what’s happening in terms of writing of this history—and you also find that, actually, it’s not simply about truth or authenticity, but it’s also about selection and editing. So in that sense I really found that history is really written with people who has the power to state what is history. So, in that sense, I found for a lot of people if they found some sort of history, it’s not really relevant to themselves, and it’s almost like what they can rely is only the memory.
2:00
Joanne Leow: And when you talk about memory, then, do you see it as something inherently personal, or do you think there’s something potentially collective about it?
2:07
Leung Chi Wo: Both possible, but before you have the collective you definitely need to have a personal memory. I mean, otherwise, the collective memory, which can be, you know, overwhelming, the personal memory is not really far away from what I say, the History with a capital H. And also when we talk about memory, I’m not saying that memory is the truth, but somehow it is the thing that you find the most relevant. So, actually, it’s interesting, because it happens that our memories could fade, and we would make mistakes, and we actually remember some things wrong. But, it’s not the most important thing when I really think about memory because, as I said, memory, you think that it’s the substance that you can really relate to.
3:03
Joanne Leow: And a little bit more about the specific form of the work, then. You had a kind of archival method, and found objects, but also, you know, the form of the installation, the form of juxtaposition and everything like that. Can you talk a little bit more about why you felt that those forms were necessary to talk about that period?
3:21
Leung Chi Wo: I like object-based presentation because I think object—especially objects with certain relevance to the time, like vintage objects—it actually lay out sort of context for people to, you know, enter to this timeframe. And also, it’s a rather common behaviour where we regard so-called historical objects or old objects, that kind of indexical relationship to certain place and certain time would be, you know, more prominent, if not convincing. So, in that sense, I think it really helps the audience to construct a relations to the narrative.
4:10
Joanne Leow: Do you ever worry about the fact that nostalgia or commercialization or commodification of these objects is a problem? You know, they use it to sell particular experiences instead of having this—and I don’t want to say it’s a pure link to memory, but having a very, I think, ethical relationship to your memory, do you…I mean, how do you counteract that?
4:32
Leung Chi Wo: I’m definitely aware, like this commercialization or commodification of the nostalgia. But when I apply the use of all these objects, or in general when I try to create a certain narrative, I always try to, or attempt to, keep certain kind of distance in terms of the presentation. So, when you see, I put certain objects…what I would do would be simply creating a physical relationship of these objects with other objects in front of the audience, instead of providing a lot of interpretations of all these objects. Because usually I would say that it’s almost a condition to commodify it, and the nostalgia, which is the interpretation, right, you need to say that, “oh this is important,” and to make you feel that it’s important. But what I try to do, just, you know, putting this juxtaposition of different things together. In most cases, I would say that there’s very minimal presentation physically. You may say that it can be still an interpretation, but at least I try not to impose certain kind of very interpretative narrative, basically because when you see it in front of you, you can easily judge or you can easily make any statement if you want.
6:07
Joanne Leow: Yeah, so this movement away from a dominant narrative, or a narrative of any kind, in a sense, you’re looking away from—because, I mean, if you think about a state, or a kind of nation, then they have this idea that this is the story we’re going to tell, and that’s obviously all about interpretation. One of the other things I’m really interested in your work as well is this idea, then, of—because obviously what you’re dealing with, with memory and history, is this politics of disappearance in Hong Kong, this idea that, as Abbas put it, things are just—just keep disappearing, just keep changing. Can you talk a little bit more about how that reflects in your current work, but also maybe your longer trajectory as an artist?
6:49
Leung Chi Wo: Well, I mean, I started to make art around the time before the handover, so basically early ‘90s. And it was a huge [cuts off].
-
-
Leung Chi Wo 2: Clip 2
-
In this second part of the interview, Leung Chi Wo discusses the connection of architecture and localized history as an agent for his artwork. He then comments on the evolving and shifting coastline of Hong Kong, and how the pace of urbanization tends to overlook the historical context of the land—engaging with the complex relationship between urban development and preservation., 0:06
Joanne Leow: So, I’m going to ask you just to rewind a little bit to talk—not completely—but about that idea of that politics of disappearance. So you were saying, you were reading a lot about identity in that period…
Leung Chi Wo: Right.
Joanne Leow: …but there was that gap in history, so you could just talk a little bit more about that.
0:23
Leung Chi Wo: I really think that there was not such official platform to have that local history here, so I started to look at more—as I say, personally I’m interested in physical objects, things—so, I started to create things where…so like physical surroundings, I was interested in architecture, so I started to look at all these old buildings that I was not told or taught to learn about them, and, in a sense, because their age was old. So, somehow, it’s kind of interesting, yeah, generically they were called as historical buildings, but somehow it was almost empty of history, because nobody really mentioned and taught and considered about that. So it becomes a very interesting agent for my practice, almost like I started to look at all these things which apparently looked very quietly, but I tried to uncover or relay certain kind of context to…almost like I would reincarnate all this body.
1:47
Joanne Leow: That’s really interesting, this idea of reincarnation. So you really became a kind of artist of the city, in a sense, in that idea. I wanted to ask you a little bit more about—I have questions related to my own research, just what in terms of I’m interested in, and there are two things. First, maybe since you’re talking about the city, to just think a bit more about the changes that have been wrought in terms of reclamation, and the expansion of Kowloon, for instance, like in the cultural district, the new West Kowloon Cultural District. What are your thoughts on that evolving and shifting Hong Kong coastline there, and how do you think it might affect your work?
2:29
Leung Chi Wo: I have very strong emotions in that it was really the beginning of my work, like I did have a job before I really could…spend a lot of time on art, it was right after my graduation, so I worked in a publishing company, and it was before ‘97, so it was a direction to really publish a lot of books on Hong Kong history and cultures, and that was the time that I learned a bit about Hong Kong, because I didn’t have it in school. So, it was very interesting when I look at all this—for example, we produced a book on the historic postcards of Hong Kong, so you could see all these beautiful architectures. And that emotion came because I learned it so late, because it was already the ‘90s. But somehow I found that they were only demolished in the ‘80s; that means I could be still able to see it if I was told to do it. So it was such…almost like a time lag, that the change of the city was so fast that nobody could cope with it. Even…it was so late when you started to miss it. So it’s kind of very interesting, you didn’t miss it when it was demolished, you only miss it when it was many years later. So, I think it was really the pace of the urbanizations here, and the substance of meaning and history was somehow…it is not neglected, but it was definitely overlooked so much.
4:25
Joanne Leow: So it’s a kind of belated reaction…
Leung Chi Wo: Exactly, it’s belated, yeah.
Joanne Leow: Does it…for me, coming from Singapore, and I just did some research in Vancouver, it’s this idea that the coastline isn’t stable, so Hong Kong itself, the ground, isn’t stable. So much of it is built on reclaimed land, very much like Vancouver and Hong Kong, and all this new development. How do you relate to that new development in relation to the old buildings that you’ve lost?
4:51
Leung Chi Wo: I mean, new developments didn’t respect the old at all, I really found…and referring to that reclamation context, actually it happened so late, like the law to protect the harbour only came, I think like ten, fifteen years ago. So now, basically, within the Victoria Harbour, we couldn’t reclaim anymore. So, that new highway, or the underpass along the harbour, was the last bit that can be reclaimed. But nowadays a lot of people still calling for reclamations beyond the harbour, so the other side of the harbour, or outside the harbour, mainly for the reason to have more space for housing and so on. And that’s the problem, because I think that what we’ve lacked from this idea of urban planning here, it was the official account always offer to you very limited choices, and they always thought that, for example, like development was almost hundred percent opposite to preservation, so they thought that if you have to develop, you cannot do preservation. But it’s not true, I mean, there’s the official account created all the time, or bit by bit very slowly we started to see sort of civil movement to counter this, but it’s taking so long, and I think that also happening alongside, with the political movement, and it actually, I find, they really parallel or relate. But at the same time, when you see all this call for political change, it has been suppressed so much, and that call for preservation of the old part of the city was almost suppressed at the same time because actually, very often, there would be the same group of the people asking, because I think this is the oldest idea about the future of the city. And then everything is related, you need this political power to support the preservation.
7:14
Joanne Leow: Yeah. And obviously urban planning, spatial control and authority in space, is also a way to discipline the population. Not just in terms of housing, although that’s a huge part of it, but also in terms of urban memory, like what you preserve. Totally true. Maybe one last question on that work on water, the one entitled So I don’t really know sometimes if it’s because of culture, which really really moved me because there you really engage with the harbour, but you also engage with some transnational connections as well. Can you talk a little bit more about that work on water, for you in terms of Hong Kong being this archipelago, really. You know, what does water mean to you and your practice?
7:54
Leung Chi Wo: Okay. A few years ago I read—it was very interesting discovery, it was almost like a myth, because it’s this kind of discovery in the biochemistries. So there’s a French scientist, he found an indeed kind of…organic fluid in the cells, somehow water-based, it actually has a certain kind of memory. So, in terms of any change of the body fluid, and it record, no matter how much the dilution it could be. So I actually took this almost like a metaphor for my interpretation of the water, and it’s also along the concept as of silent witness. And along history, think about that, so many things had happened, but the water looks similar, but there’s—apparently looking similar. If I could apply that idea that water can remember, indeed, it really witness, or there’s change as well. So, in that sense, almost that is the most powerless gesture I could do is to make use of the water in front of all this historical change. So, returning to that project, I mean the image of the Victoria Harbour, it’s actually somehow like a very silenced protest.
9:31
Joanne Leow: That’s so interesting. So, just going back to the image as this kind of silent protest, how do you see, then, those—I’m usually interested in that connection to migration as well.
Leung Chi Wo: Right.
Joanne Leow: What was that connection, then, in terms of the water?
9:46
Leung Chi Wo: Well, I mean, definitely, you really pass over all this ocean. And also, on the other hand, I like this notion of photography. This image of the water tells you nothing about its location, right, but because of the process of photography, it was almost like evidence that a particular part of the water was taken somewhere, you know, particular. So it was the image of the Victoria Harbour, but at the same time, it could be really shared by people who thought that that could be the Mediterranean, you know. So, it has this multilayers reading possible for people without losing my original intention, yeah.
-
-
Lonsdale Ferry Video 1
-
Video of foamy water behind the Seabus as it moves away from Waterfront to Lonsdale Quay. The city skyline is visible in the background; harbour cranes come into view on the left side at around 1:40. Duration: 2:00
-
-
Lonsdale Ferry Video 2
-
Video of ships on the water as seen from the Seabus going from Waterfront to Lonsdale Quay. Harbour cranes are visible in the background. Duration: 0:26
-
-
Lonsdale Quay Video 1
-
Video looking across the water towards Canada Place. The city skyline, harbour cranes, and ships are visible in the background. Duration: 0:37
-
-
Lonsdale Quay Video 2
-
Video of multiple ships on the water with harbour cranes in the background; docks are visible on the left side. Duration: 0:16
-
-
Lonsdale Quay Video 3
-
Video looking across the water towards Canada Place; the city skyline and harbour cranes are visible in the background; a dock is visible on the left. Duration: 0:50
-
-
Marina Barrage 10
-
Ships on the ocean. Land south of Marina Barrage visible in the bottom right corner.
-
-
Marina Barrage 11
-
City skyline: Marina Bay Sands and Singapore Flyer Ferris Wheel visible.
Pages