there's also this pressure of, you know, this construct, of Vancouver, in particular, as a multicultural place. What are your thoughts on this category ‘Asian-Canadian,’ for instance, and this idea of uniting this multiplicity of history under this category? And obviously, you're excavating a particular community at a particular time. Um, do you have thoughts on what a kind of solidarity might look like between multiple communities of non-white, actually, groups of people, whether indigenous or so-called Asian-Canadian. I don't know. What are your thoughts on that? 11:05 PD: Well I think about the history of also that space. I think of coloured communities, Asian and Indian, South Asian, have been in a parallel kind of space and have been in a space-less space of solidarity. If you look back on the colonial records, both Chinatown and then South Asian um mill workers were actually present for each other's witnessing. And also, with the the restaurants in Chinatown, they were the only places that would allow South Asians to eat there. And so, there's a historical kind of context to this. But as a label, “Asian-Canadian as a writer,” there's there's an ebb and flow of function, for me. And sometimes the function of ‘Asian-Canadian’ is about communities and communities working together, but then it's also about also organising a composite literature of work from various Chinese and South Asian authors that write in the English language. So that frame and labelling itself has another function. For myself, personally, I actually have gotten really parochial. I say “Punjabi,” I say: “Punjabi writer writing in the English language.” And the reason why that is, is because I need to locate. It's really important to locate the specificity of your community, and if I'm going to do this kind of writing, it's important to be specific. As opposed to working in this kind of Vancouver as the kind of the cosmopolitan space vs the Punjabi community who was a settler community and that has a documentation and a history of struggle. And so, I think that there's different functions in different places as we kind of use the word "Asian-Canadian." Um, South-Asian Canadian, but even as a... and then there's the political context, and that is ‘what is Asian-Canadian? Why is it Canadian?’ And the question of ‘being Canadian.’ And this kind of comes back to this notion of being civil and also of being a citizen. What is the role of the citizen? And who is enfranchised in the citizenship? And that to me is also another kind of consideration, but it's something that is getting to the truth of the exclusions that took place that were specific to being unCanadian vs a Canadian or being a citizen but with very limited rights. 14:07 JL: And, basically, being not white in this space called Vancouver, for sure. That ties really nicely into one of the last questions that I'd like to ask you. Probably the last. So, coming back to this idea of that fraught definition then of who gets to be Canadian, who gets to be—who gets to have status in this space, I want to turn to, just a little bit, back to the work and think about the ship and the port, right? On the one hand, you have this colonial port, Vancouver, with all it's exclusions and its ability to kind of martial an almost military, actually, militarised, um idea of exclusion zones, even now, and then you have this figure of the ship, which, in many traditions, is you know a very sort of fraught figure as well, right? We think about ideas of indentured labour moving back and forth across the Pacific, but also obviously slavery in the Atlantic, so, in your thinking, also, either specifically for Dream/Arteries, or even now more broadly when you're reflecting on the book since you've written it, and talked about it, what, how do you see these two figures, the idea of the ship and the port and obviously we're thinking, you're thinking about that specific ship, that specific port, how do you see them sort of working against each other as figures or speaking to each other? I'd just love to hear your thoughts on that. 15:25 PD: Actually I think that the actual geography of the port itself and the construction of it is connected to a global infrastructure. And that global infrastructure is about corporatizing people. And turning people into physical assets to do the migratory work and to do the indentured labour, and that was why it was important to go back to the archives of NYC. When you look at the archives of Ellis Island, and that's where the ship actually landed, it was because of this mass migration at the turn of the last century and many people ended up being indentured labour, even at that time, so there was a real, I had a real need to kind of bring those things together in the contemporary moment of this reading experience. So, there's again some fluctuations of time, but also there's the port of Vancouver, which is um, it's a space that is about creating commodity and assets and the ship itself is fraught construction because what were ships doing at that time? They were instruments of colonialism, and I kind of appreciate that, but in the context of the Komagata Maru um, I wanted to source out that, and tease out, that relationship but also kind of place a certain kind of movement and liberty and movement to to become part of something like a city and like a nation state as part of like becoming—getting to a better place to live.